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William Gadea's avatar

By a strange coincidence, my college roommate pissed on our chest of drawers while sleepwalking once in our dorm room at NYU (something which, decades later, I still gleefully tease him about) AND I am currently reading Sapolsky’s Determined. (I was a convert to no free will before I started.)

Stella Stillwell's avatar

Your writing is 10 out of 10. This is a worthy entry into the canon.

It’s short and doesn’t penetrate as far as it could in some areas but tees others up for it. It’s about a good a review of the landscape as any, and what I particularly like is your attention to the possibility of the noble lie in some arguments that don’t admit to it.

Dennett is probably half way to noble lie land but he’s clever to just build his entire philosophy around what we CAN say about free will, and stop short of saying anything we really can’t say with certainty, without getting into purely intuitive territory. He forced a draw in my opinion. But my intuition is with Sapolsky and Harris.

Elbow Room certainly doesn’t feel like a lie. He’s so clever, that one.

Reasons responsiveness is what it is. Yes we are consciously aware and have intent and reasons and often know exactly the context within which we choose, and thus moral responsibility can feel very natural.

My beef with Dennett is in the words he uses to describe what he knows, believes whatever.

He simply uses “morally deserve” to denote a different state of affairs than most laymen do, and doesn’t bother to specify that his version has some fine print most likely don’t quite follow.

I think his word choice inadvertently gives widespread permission to BDMR belief.

That is, my contention is most people believe in what Caruso calls “basic desert moral responsibility.” (BDMR).

If they’re guided through a manipulation argument and forced to reflect, they often change their mind about BDMR. They no longer think we have it, in a post reflection state.

Often they will regress to the mean after a spell. As you said, we have an ability to not believe what we know.

While I get what you mean, “believe what you know” is a poetic way of getting close to the truth, but more accurately, people fail to viscerally intuit what they reason to be undeniable.

They may fail to experience what they believe. They may try to block out what they suspect is true. But grok and believe mean different things. But I’ll allow it. The way you use the “believe,” is fun, works for the Missouri Review, so, y’know.

Most people just don’t think about it that much. I can relate, because I didn’t either, for most of my childhood. And when first confronted with it, I refused to think it mattered.

Today I think it does. Even more than Harris and Sapolsky, Greg Caruso is the torch carrier for the idea free will denial can lead to a better world.

You might like his Ted Talk if you haven’t seen it.

The stat about how 11% of philosophy professors reject free will is used a lot.

A suspect if we break it down by areas of study that number goes up. Philosophy of religion might skew libertarian or compatibility more than, say, philosophers of mind.

Would be worthwhile to break down the categories to jar loose that number a bit.

The x-phi studies don’t really show losing belief in free will lead to bad to things. I’m just not convinced it wasn’t more of a game to the participants than an actual gut level shift in what they believe.

My research shows compelling data that after Pereboom reflection, people convincingly seem to be stricken with the intuition that moral desert is incoherent. It’s more likely than not to just evaporate post reflection.

I think the field does a terrible job bringing this fact out in the open: as reasoned reflection increases, so does skepticism.

Harris and Sapolsky didn’t do a great job calling out Dennett for what he was really doing. Nobody has yet.

Dennett isolated what he dubbed the kind of freedom “worth wanting,” and from there decided on behalf of humanity that we have the kind of moral deservedness and free will “worth wanting.”

That may be true, it all depends on what most of us want. But that’s not true philosophy, that’s what I’ve coined “worthwantism” in one of my articles.

The happy accident is wwism can be applied to all kinds of things, including “oughts.”

So Dennett shows that if you can conjure a freedom worth wanting such that we can conjure free will into a functional existence, it plays into Harris’s hand: it means we can do the same with “moral facts.”

So while Dennett vexed Harris on the free will front, he handed him the sequel to the Moral Landscape. I’m waiting for Sam to notice this.

Sapolsky also failed to pinpoint Dennett’s sleight of hand. So even though Sapolsky gained a bestseller and some popular renown on the free will front, Dennett prevailed, at least among the scholarly or conservative set.

Which leads to your other point. YES the free will discussion is a massive load bearing pillar to conservative ideology and Randian free market capitalism.

So much so that in committing fully to writing deeply on economics, I was led repeatedly to the free will topic.

I finally dove in and now it’s years later. To become an expert in economic theory debates I had to become a free will expert.

I’ve not only read Sapolsky, Harris, Caruso, Strawson multiple times, I’ve spoken with all of them, reaching out to ask about this or that hairsplitting thing.

Sapolsky agreed with me that Randian economics is quasi religious, which is ironic given Rand’s denial of religion and embracing of reason.

People can debate that, neither Sapolsky nor I are claiming to be Rand scholars.

Strawson simply reminded me that philosophy is not about what’s true. I had to sit with that.

He also pointed me to the concept of uFreedom. (Ultimate freedom.) My favorite Strawson quip is that he doesn’t know what “free will” is.

Only that nothing is causa sui and so we can’t be responsible for what we do.

And he agrees with his “pa” PF that in any case the reactive attitudes all but assure we “don’t believe what we know.” (To which I actually disagree.)

His protege, Goff, I’ve also spoken with, his suggestion is why not believe in Pan-freewill-ism? (Very Goff response.)

Caruso is congenial but doesn’t really talk shop with strangers (fans) via email.

Harris is all about “all we can do is talk the talk.” He’s got his own goals and his expectations seemed to have mellowed as of late.

We’re on the precipice of some pretty bad things and whatever sense-making was hoping to inspire in civilization, it clearly wasn’t enough to avert the craziness we see today.

As it turns out, very few of us WANT to make sense.

Seems to be convinced a large portion of his base isn’t interested in the free will thing, so it seems a bit tapped out, even though I’m sure he could take it further.

Although he’d risk becoming weirdly repetitive like George Ortega and Nick Vale. 😂

Caruso has a new book out (or coming out) and it’s mega expensive. I’m going to wait for that to come down in price. “Living well without free will” or something.

As for Harris directly experiencing automaticity of thought, I was indeed able to achieve it once, and it’s like suddenly realizing you’re a doll, or a thing, not a person, and it’s an abruptly suffocating, paradoxical feeling.

Akin to a panic attack or ego death. So while I believe what I know, I prefer not to stare straight into the sun.

I’d rather not feel like pages in a book while I’m living thru them.

I stop at just knowing that nobody is really morally worthy of blame or praise.

That much I’ve trained myself to grok 24/7. It’s a gentle, freeing feeling, I suspect it’s a kind of Spinozan reverie.

I’m going to reread your beautiful piece and use it as a springboard to remind me where to go deeper if and when I have the time.

It’s more than just a survey, you bring uncommon candor and new insight and even some history I didn’t know about to the Noble Lie phenomenon. I wasn’t aware that some admit it.

The bits with your wife and the opening story give your piece a creative non-fiction vibe and I’m not surprised it was picked up by a prestige journal.

That’s a dream of mine, but I just don’t have the patience and charm (or time) to slow roll my argument.

But I’m grateful you did. You’re a fantastic, effortless, likable writer. I’m happy to have discovered your Substack.

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